All I have is a description of what I observed and experienced. I appreciate your comments. It greatly disturbs me that this was a drawn out painful death for her. She didn't deserve this.
Don't be so sure it was a painful death. She may have been frightened and confused when the "seizure" first started, when she flew uncontrollably around the room. But often when patients have a seizure, they aren't aware of what's going on afterwards, and if she seemed basically non-responsive to you, that may be the case with a bird too. Her unrecognizable chirps were possibly not voluntary, meaning they weren't occuring because of pain. You were with her to comfort her, and that's important. No animal deserves to suffer; sometimes it's a part of life. Becky
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
Jim
Very sorry to hear your sad story. Sounds to me as if you did all you possibly could for Henri. If she was aware of what was happening then she would have known that you were all there to give her comfort, and if she wasn't aware then of course she wouldn't have suffered.
I hope your family and George are starting to feel a little better about your loss.
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
Thanks, gu0l7s8g74s8., Becky, Graham, Jess, Linda, Winnie, Jill, and Toucan. I hope I got everyone, as you all deserve recognition. Your replies have givin me support during a very difficult time for my family.
George is starting to come around, but it's obvious to me that he's a very lonely bird. He looks like a lost soul. I had a long talk with George again last night, reminded him of how I feel, and how I think he feels, etc. I talked about how Henri has been called back to Heaven, much the same way I think I'd explain death to a young child. Geroge was more focused on my words more than I think I've ever seen him. I covered his cage and stayed up with him for a while. He perched himself so that he could see me sitting on the couch through an opening in the cover. Before Henri passed away, I don't recall George ever doing that.
George looked totally lost this morning, and I didn't feel good about leaving him alone, but we had jobs and school to go to.
While driving the 7 miles to work, thoughts of Henri during the final hours continued to hurt me like a knife. I thought about turning around, thinking I'd fall apart if someone cared enough to ask why I missed work the day before. Driving the back country roads with the sun coming up, I screamed "Fly Henri Fly!!!" as loud as I could, thinking maybe she could hear me. All in vain of course, but I felt better afterward. I made it through work today but it felt like I was in a vacuum of depression. I had the empty feeling that no one at the work place can relate to this type of experience. "Yup, that's right folks. All this over a bird." The subject never came up.
I couldn't wait to get home to check on George. Later this afternoon, I was the first one to arrive home. As I approached, George greeted me with loud happy chirps before I even turned the front door knob . I was very excited to see him too. The problem remains, however that he is very lonely.
I'm grateful for this forum consisting of sensitive, quality human beings as you have shown yourselves to be. My guess is that most anyone outside this forum would think I'm totally nuts.
Since a little time has elapsed, I'd like to directly respond to a few of your comments while offering a few more descriptions and thoughts while the tragic event was happening, beginning with a recap:
Saturday Night, Henri is fine. Plenty of energy and good appitite. Sunday 4am - Attack #1 My dilemma: I could have left her alone giving her time to calm down, knowing I was risking her having a heart attack in her present paniced state, if I continued to try and catch her. Instead I chose to catch her and return her to the cage. I'm still struggling with this and it absolutely haunts me. I wish I'd let her sit and left her alone for a bit. Could that have prevented the second attack? I'll never know.
Note: Usually there's always a little night light in the room, but it was off for some reason. I thought this may have contributed to the night-panic attack, which I hoped it still was until the 2nd attack convinced me otherwise.
Mistake #2 - I'm kicking myself for not staying up to observe Henri after I placed her back in the cage, knowing this experience was extreme. Could that have prevented the second attack? I don't know.
Attack #2 - 1/2 hour later For lack of a better word, I'll say that Henri was siezuring when Cindy took Henri out of the cage. Other than the brief calming when I whislted to her, she was completely unresponsive to us or George. She was squawking in a way that tore me to pieces, with her heart pounding. Her left wing and foot were twitching, her head was twitching and turning to one side. Her body temperature increased as time went on, her squawkes became weaker and her feathers were puffy until she died hours later.
Graham> If she was aware of what was happening then she would have known that you were all there to give her comfort, and if she wasn't aware then of course she wouldn't have suffered.>
I sure hope you're right! Thanks, that helps.
Becky> She may have been frightened and confused when the "seizure" first started, when she flew uncontrollably around the room. But often when patients have a seizure, they aren't aware of what's going on afterwards, and if she seemed basically non-responsive to you, that may be the case with a bird too. Her unrecognizable chirps were possibly not voluntary, meaning they weren't occuring because of pain. >
Becky, I really hope that's the case. I try to remember that God wouldn't let an innocent, sweet bird like Henri suffer. Maybe this is another tough lesson in keeping the faith. As I sat holding her, I was wondering if she was already gone. In my grief, I still couldn't cope with the thought of losing her, but not knowing if she was suffering was absolutely brutal. Still is.
gu0l7s8g74s8>If a Vet had responded, he/she could have probably eased the pain and put her to sleep. >
What vet we could reach said "We don't treat birds". When no one else responded, I had thoughts of putting her to sleep myself. Maybe drowning or sufficating would be more merciful than what she was going through.
I couldn't do it. I wanted to believe that God would take her on His time table, and I needed to have faith. At 11am, well after Henri had lost much of her strength, a pet store about an hour's drive away offered to euthanize her, but said we couldn't be in the room with her. Again, we couldn't do it. We felt that Henri had already suffered the worst of it. At this point, she was fading and we wanted Henri to die at home with us holding her. It felt like the right thing to do. As difficut as it was,and is for my wife, she felt Henri's last heart beat.
Thanks again for letting me get this out. You folks are the best. Looking forward, I'm going to start a thread asking the best way to introduce a new bird.
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
On 13 Sep 2005 21:33:08 -0700, jimdep1@yahoo.com.NOSPLAM posted: Hindsight is 20/20. I doubt if your watching Henri would have made any difference in the outcome. As for not catching her when she was flying around aimlessly, you'll never know if that would have made a difference, but I strongly doubt that it would have. It's no use beating yourself up over it. You made the decision you thought was best at the time; please accept that and move on.
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I couldn't do it. I wanted to believe that God would take her on His time table, and I needed to have faith. At 11am, well after Henri had lost much of her strength, a pet store about an hour's drive away offered to euthanize her, but said we couldn't be in the room with her. Again, we couldn't do it. We felt that Henri had already suffered the worst of it. At this point, she was fading and we wanted Henri to die at home with us holding her. It felt like the right thing to do. As difficut as it was,and is for my wife, she felt Henri's last heart beat.
When each of my two budgies died, I was holding them, singing their favorite song. I've hoped the warmth of my hands comforted them, and the last thing they heard was the song I sing to my birds every night at bedtime. I think that gave them permission to relax and leave this world in peace.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:46 am Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
I just want to clarify something. When I mentioned that she might have had a heart attack or stroke, I did not mean to imply that this was caused from your chasing her, but rather this might have been what started her problem, since it was so sudden. The seizures are often when they are in the last death throes. (Sorry to be so graphic) I keep a product on hand, called "Rescue Remedy," for emergency situations. http://www.bachflower.com/rescue_remedy.htm
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
Toucan, thanks, I knew what you meant. I did blame myself at first but as the dust settles, I'm getting more rational about it. There was definatlely something wrong with Henri to begin with that woke us up the first time that may not have been preventable. I regret not sitting up with her before the 2nd attack hit.
Linda, your poem has been on our fridge since I first read it. I keep it in plain view for immediate comfort. thanks again.
Becky, you've been through this before, and I'm glad you've been here for me. Your birds were lucky to have you too.
Linda, your poem has been on our fridge since I first read it. I keep it in plain view for immediate comfort. thanks again.
You're most welcome. Often there's not much we can do except to offer each other comfort and understanding. On September 5th, my little black-masked lovebird, Kimba, passed away. He was not quite six years old. He was never a robust bird, had a lot of trouble keeping weight on, and had problems with his feathers as well as a suppressed immune system. In spite of doing everything I could to keep him healthy, it was a losing battle. We had a couple of "episodes" in the last month or so where I felt he wasn't going to make it, but he seemed to spring back to life. This time, though, it wasn't to be. I wrapped Kimba in a small handkerchief I had knit in his colours .... green and red shot through with gold threads ... and laid him to rest in front of my lavender bush in my garden. I could hardly breathe as I was digging in the earth, I was so overcome with sadness. Even putting his cage away was an ordeal and it took me several days before I could dismantle it. I realize many people would say that Kimba was "just a bird" and I suppose in the grand scheme of things, his passing is not important. But for those of us who love our birds and who cherish them and consider them precious family members, each death diminishes us and chips away at our hearts leaving wounds that hopefully, in time, will heal and be filled with only the good memories of life shared with our little friends. I hope you and your family feel better soon. I know it will take a while, as I've been there myself more than once, so let yourself grieve for Henri and take the time you need to heal. Sincerely, Linda
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
Your story tore me apart when I first read it, since I get concerned enough when our birds have the occasional panic attack at night. We don't cover the cage, so they have some natural light to see by. Sorry to hear about your loss... I don't think there was anything more you could do. At least some of the vets did get back to you, but in the end it does come down to 'it's just a bird'. It sounds harsh, and not to belittle our relationships with them but we can't pull heaven and earth down for them. Besides, there's so little known even by the experts, and the poor things are in no condition to tell us what's going on with them. As far as euthanizing goes, I think drowning or suffocating would be a bit harsh on a bird. I've euthanized a pet fish by dropping them in boiling water and I've drowned a few mice that have been in our apartment, and both were hard enough to do. I'd think that the best thing for a bird would be a gas of some sort. They're very sensitive, and it would be 'out like a light'. Nice and quiet and peaceful... wrote in message
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
Many years ago, 1n 1973, my mother died. I was 23. At work, my supervisor gave me a little dish garden for my desk as a memorial to her.
Several months later Mr. Lucky, my wonderful budgie who was 10, died. He had battled arthritis for a couple years, and finally succumbed. A great vet had given me some cortisone in a solution (water?), from which I would put drops in his water, but in the end it was doing no good.
Mr. Lucky was the best little guy! He knew where all his mirrors in the house were. When I uncovered him in the morning he would open his door, sit on the "ramp" that it created and sing his morning song, then fly to the toaster in the kitchen. From there he would fly to each room where his mirrors were, sing, talk to, and feed his images, until he got hungry and thirsty. Then back to his cage.
He spoke several words: "Mr. Lucky!" "Lambie pie" "pretty bird, pretty pretty pretty". Then he got creative and said "Mr. Lucky Pie," and "Saclear". (We never figured out where that came from, but we loved it!)
I was at work almost all day the day after he died when I finally glanced at the dish garden. In it my supervisor had put a little blue bird on one of the branches. It did me in and I broke down. I was very touched that she would understand just how much of a loss it was. Mr. Lucky was definitely not "just another bird."
I have had other budgies since, but none can compare to him.
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
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hope you and your family feel better soon. I know it will take a while, as I've been there myself more than once, so let yourself grieve
for Henri and take the time you need to heal.> Thanks again. Four days later, I still feel stunned.
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wounds that hopefully, in time, will heal and be filled with only the good memories of life shared with our little
friends.> That's an important point. We had eight plus years of good memories with Henri. I'd try to make time during the day to just relax and watch her bounce around on top of the cage. She knew when she was being watched, and she'd put on a show. Since her death, that visual of her pained face in the final hours is what I'm seeing. I know the good memories of her will return in due time.
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I wrapped Kimba in a small handkerchief I had knit in his colours .... ----snipped--- >8
in front of my lavender bush in my garden. > Great idea with the handkerchief, and it sounds like a beautiful resting place. I could hardly breathe as I was digging in the earth, I was so overcome with sadness.
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----snipped--- >8
I know that feeling. Henri's still on ice and I can't bring myself to bury her yet. Tears roll just thinking about it. I'm so sorry about Kimba. It hasn't been that long for you either. The concept of "just a bird" never entered my mind. I love birds, as I love life itself.
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As far as euthanizing goes, I think drowning or suffocating would be a bit ----snipped--- >8
I only thought about it during a desperate and frustrated moment. Her present condition was so agonizing.
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Nice and quiet and peaceful... ----snipped--- >8
quiet, or peaceful. I can only hope that she couldn't feel anything after the siezure. What really struck me was her strong will to live. As I was holding her, hour after hour I could really sense that she WANTED to live. She wouldn't give up. This is a bird that loved her life, family and environment. She could show appreciation with a chatter or wave of her beak. She'd dance, call out to you, buzz you when you walked by, show excitement when she'd see you, and most importantly, she loved George. We could tell the diffence in Henri from the day we brought George home. She was always looking out for him, and he looked out for her. I'd suspect that just taking care of George was reason enough for Henri to hold on for so long. During the hours of holding her, she didn't want to let go, unitl she became too weak. It hurt me so much that I couldn't help her. I prayed that she wouldn't suffer, prayed for a miracle that she'd live through it, prayed that God would hurry and take her. It was brutal.
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At least some of the ----snipped--- >8
For the record, none of the vets got back to us. I got back to them, well after the fact. Lesson learned: don't let your bird die on a weekend. Troy and Vicky, I'd suggest covering the cage at night with a little opening big enough for them to see a night light. It reduces their stress and helps them sleep better. Thanks for caring, and I wish your birds lots of love.
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
It's been a few hours shy of a week since Henri passed. This time last week, I was holding her during our last moments together. Fortunaltly this Sunday, we have a happier home. Although Henri will always be in our hearts, we have a new little female budgie for George named Ginger. She's mostly yellow with a few green splottes. Very pretty. George was lonely and needs company of his own kind. They are playing and getting along fine. Normally, I don't believe in "replacing" pets, but it's obvious that George is happier. Thanks again to all that offered such kind and helpful support. God Bless.
It's been a few hours shy of a week since Henri passed. This time last week, I was holding her during our last moments together. Fortunaltly this Sunday, we have a happier home.
Glad to hear things are progressing for you. I'm sure Henri would have loved the fact that you have a new bird in the house. -- Dave www.davebbq.com
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Our Beloved Parakeet suffered Seizures and Died - Her Ma
In article <1127052301.211694.308540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, jimdep1@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
It's been a few hours shy of a week since Henri passed. This time last week, I was holding her during our last moments together. Fortunaltly this Sunday, we have a happier home. Although Henri will always be in our hearts, we have a new little female budgie for George named Ginger. She's mostly yellow with a few green splottes. Very pretty. George was lonely and needs company of his own kind. They are playing and getting along fine. Normally, I don't believe in "replacing" pets, but it's obvious that George is happier. Thanks again to all that offered such kind and helpful support. God Bless.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Jim: I'm glad to hear that George is settling in with his new mate, Ginger, and that he has perked up a whole lot since Ginger joined your family.
In all my years of owning birds, I find budgies really enjoy having cage-mates. I've had single lovebirds and single parrotlets -- also a single quaker -- who always appeared to be quite content living by themselves and having their people give them attention and quality time. But with budgies I've always found they really *love* the company of other budgies and seem to really bloom and come into their own when they have their own kind around them. Good luck with Ginger (cute name, by the way!). I hope she and George have a long happy life together. Regards, Linda
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: Belated followup to Henri's story
I realize I am replying to a very old post, but since the original poster wasn't able to get treatment for his or her bird and wasn't able to have a necropsy done, I thought I'd share my experience in order to set OP's mind at ease a bit. First, my belated condolences on Henri's loss - it's terribly traumatic for the owner (and companion bird) to watch a feathered friend depart.
My sweet, beloved Marie was only three years old when this happened to her. I'd taken her and her mate, Lilo, outside to enjoy the unseasonably warm and sunny weather last March, when the wind unexpectedly picked up, and a gust blew directly in my birds' faces. I examined the birds briefly to make sure they were all right, about to take them in, but a neighbor came up and began chatting away, so I lingered a moment. Suddenly, Marie extended her wings and opened her mouth, squawking intermittently - I was afraid that in her alarm at the wind gust, she'd leapt up and hit her head on the bars of the cage, or perhaps that she was simply dangerously alarmed. I hurriedly took the birds inside and removed them from the cage. Lilo flew back to their home cage without incident, but Marie flew haphazardly into a piece of furniture. I scooped her up and held her - by this time her left side was twitching violently, and the poor precious was grasping at anything she could with her beak amid terrified squawks. I immediately took her to the emergency vet service, who mercifully treat exotics after hours.
The vet immediately took her into the back and gave her a shot of Valium. That did the trick instantly, and when they summoned me back into the treatment room, I had a glimmer of hope as I held my poor little sweetheart, who was now quite still and calm and sleeping peacefully. I was told that if she responded to the Valium and stopped seizing, she might recover. I went home for an hour or two, primarily because I suppose some part of me feared the worst, and I wanted her to have the comfort of her adoring mate. It was late when I arrived with Lilo, but they allowed us to sit with Marie - now in a glass box with towels for her to rest on - for several hours before they shooed me out. By now the full extent of Marie's illness was apparent - even with the Valium, she twitched constantly, every so often having a full blown seizure where her neck would stretch and twist, her head tucked under. I placed Lilo's little travel cage against the glass, and when Marie briefly woke to find us there, bless her dear little heart, she eagerly dragged herself over the towels to the glass, where she pressed herself as close to Lilo as she could go. I have a heartbreaking photo of her there, leaning against the glass, with Lilo looking at me in alarm as if to say, 'Isn't she going to be all right???!'
After a moment's repose - or perhaps farewell to me - she struggled along the glass, trying to get closer to where Lilo was perched, before she began seizing uncontrollably. I called in the vet, who began breaking it to me that they couldn't keep dosing her with Valium (in fact, I don't think they gave her another shot of it). She hadn't eaten in hours, and she wasn't stable enough for either bloodwork or tube feeding. Part of me wishes I'd asked her to euthanize my Marie right then - it might have saved her a few hours of suffering. But I still had hope, because the vets hadn't given up hope, and I allowed them to take both Marie and Lilo - for companionship - back into the back while I went home to get a few hours' sleep.
I called first thing in the morning and was told they were tube feeding Marie but that she was still seizing. Truth to tell, I don't think the feeding happened because at necropsy, her crop was completely empty. But I don't blame the vet - she was already too far gone. By the time I was up and dressed and ready to return to the vet hospital, I received a call telling me she was gone. I was so sorry that I wasn't there at the end, though I know having Lilo there must have been a comfort to her.
The necropsy was negative for heavy metal toxicity - a concern, since she had been chewing avidly on the bars of the cage to the point that the enamel was stripped off. Her brain, heart and lungs were also normal. Her liver apparently was very small and hardened, however. All were sent off for analysis. The results were inconclusive, because either a pesticide (unlikely) or low blood sugar caused by liver failure could have caused the seizures. Because she would not have had access to any neurotoxic pesticides, the vet concluded that it was the atrophied liver that was the culprit. I have no idea what caused it.
In any event, there is likely nothing any vet could have done for the original poster's budgie, other than to ease her suffering by putting her to sleep.
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